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        6                   UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS

        7                     AT URBANA-CHAMPAIGN

        8      

        9                      BOARD OF TRUSTEES

       10      

       11               SPECIAL DIALOGUE INTAKE SESSION

       12                      CHIEF ILLINIWEK

       13      

       14                 TRANSCRIPT OF NARRATIVES TAPED

       15                  IN THE FOELLINGER BALCONY

       16                        APRIL 14, 2000

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        1       SPEAKER:                 Page

               

        2       Robert Dunn                4

                Nancy Deters               6 

        3       Tom Bassett                6

               

        4       Cathy Harper              10

                Chris Drew                12

        5       Desere Untoob             14

               

        6       Noble Glaudell            16

                Nancy Henne               18

        7       Mark Butcher              19

               

        8       Matt Tittle               20

                Lori Kingery              24

        9       Leonard Malatere          26

               

       10       Yvonne Murry              30

                Diana Stimpel             30

       11       Daniel Green              32

               

       12       Nora Lloyd                34

                Frank P. Johnson          36

       13       Eli Suzukovich            38

               

       14       April Pierce              38

                Weylin Webster Williams   39

       15       Janet Tucker              42

               

       16       Ronald Jordan             43

                Bob Craft                 46

       17       Carl Kron                 46

               

       18       Stephanie Cord            49

                Jacqueline French         51

       19       Paul Youth                52 

               

       20       Susan Weaver              54

                Frank Krasnowski          56

       21       Gwen Carr                 57

               

       22       Anuj Parikh               60

                Sherry Naanes             63

       23       Bryan Thalhammer          66

               

       24       Matthew Pyles             67

                Ronald Black              69

 

 

 

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        1       Arvin Gee                 71

                Dean Cook                 71

        2       Lindsay Robinson          75

               

        3       Nick Guroff               78

                Anni-Fridsantos           80

        4       Frank Trechsel            80

               

        5       Durango Mendoza           84

                Danielle Osler            87

        6       Jennifer Putnam           90

               

        7       Diana Regina Stimpel      92

                Felicia Graves            95

        8       Megan Bang                98

               

        9       Dianne Pinderhughes      100

                Matt Harsh               103

       10       David Anderson           107

               

       11       Cassandra Kegler         108

                Kateri Garcia            109

       12       Tamara Daniel            110

               

       13       Chad Daniel              111

                Meg Miner                114

       14       Kimberly Krinach         115

               

       15       Umeeta Sadarangani       117

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        1                 MR. ROBERT DUNN:  As I said, my name is

        2       Robert Dunn.  I am a senior at Urbana High School

        3       and I have been involved in the movement for the

        4       last three years.  For the last, since I became

        5       involved and became aware of this at the high

        6       school, I have received numerous harassment,

        7       threats of violence towards me just because of my

        8       stance and I believe this is directly because of

        9       the University's symbol.

       10                 When people have friends who are native,

       11       you have kids coming up going "hey yaw, hey yaw,

       12       hey" and then afterwards they ask, why did you do

       13       that, and they said we are honoring you.  That is

       14       not honor.

       15                 I mean, if you want to honor native

       16       Americans, you live up to the treaties that you

       17       signed with them.  And I know that is all the way

       18       back from the 1800s, but those treaties still

       19       exist today.  And if you want to honor them, you

       20       know, include them into mainstream society.  But

       21       let them, let native people still have their

       22       religion, you know, stop mocking them for

       23       entertainment and then using honor as an excuse

       24       for your own personal entertainment.

 

 

 

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        1                 And you know, this stuff about the

        2       Peoria tribe, the Peoria tribe just passed a

        3       resolution, I don't know if anyone has seen it

        4       yet, but they just passed a resolution against

        5       Chief Illiniwek and they apologized because when

        6       Channel 15 came to them, which is our local NBC

        7       affiliate, came to them, decided that they did not

        8       know anything about Chief Illiniwek back in '95

        9       and had they known, they would have gone against

       10       it.  And so they feel really used by what the

       11       University has done by using their misquotes and

       12       misrepresentation of what they said.

       13                 And so, the only way to repay Native

       14       Americans is to get rid of this mascot and build a

       15       native culture house and native studies department

       16       and start recruiting native students, faculty and

       17       staff.  That is the only way, so please, the Board

       18       of Trustees, this University needs to wake up,

       19       this Hollywood, this ridiculous Hollywood stuff

       20       needs to go.  This isn't the 1920s anymore, that's

       21       when the Chief came around.

       22                 Also, what was back then in the 1920s

       23       was a little black symbol and if you look in your

       24       old past year books, you can see fraternities

 

 

 

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        1       putting on black face and having little minstrel

        2       shows.  And so that's another thing you have to

        3       look where this came from.  This came from a

        4       racist environment and it still is.

        5                 So in conclusion I have to say retire

        6       this mascot, that is the only way that justice can

        7       be served.  Thank you.

        8                 MS. NANCY DETERS:  My name is Nancy

        9       Deters, I have been interested in this because of

       10       my kids, five of out of six of them have gone to

       11       school here.  And after I read all the good stuff

       12       and all the heavy duty stuff, what comes down to

       13       me is that if you have respect for another person,

       14       you don't have to love them or like them, but if

       15       you have respect and you are doing something that

       16       hurts them and they tell you that and they ask you

       17       to stop, then you stop.  It's that simple.  It has

       18       nothing to do with your intentions, you can have

       19       the best intentions in the world.  If it hurts,

       20       you stop it.  Thank you.

       21                 MR. TOM BASSETT:  Tom Bassett, the title

       22       of my presentation is "How Chief Illiniwek

       23       Undermines Undergraduate Education at the

       24       University of Illinois."

 

 

 

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        1                 My name is Professor Tom Bassett.  I

        2       teach one of the largest undergraduate classes at

        3       the University in the College of Liberal Arts and

        4       Sciences, Geography 101, the Geography of

        5       Developing Countries.

        6                 Each semester, this class has enrollment

        7       of 500 students.  The class fulfills the

        8       nonwestern culture requirement of the University. 

        9       One of the reasons that students are required to

       10       take such a class is that the University believes

       11       it's important that students are exposed to

       12       diversity of cultures that are different from

       13       their own.

       14                 It is part of our larger mission in

       15       preparing students to enter the wider world in a

       16       way they can act responsibly and intelligently,

       17       and I hope, with a sense of social justice as

       18       citizens of an increasing global economy and

       19       society.  This is a challenge.

       20                 Most of the students in geography 101

       21       come to the University with very little

       22       understanding of the world outside of Chicago

       23       suburbs.  The fourth week of classes I regularly

       24       conduct what I call a third world awareness

 

 

 

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        1       exercise.  Students are asked to write down five

        2       words or expressions that capture the essence of

        3       the developing world.  They are then asked to

        4       write five explanations of why the third world is

        5       the way they described it.

        6                 More than 90 percent of the responses

        7       usually depict the people in places of Africa,

        8       Latin America and southern Asia in negative terms. 

        9       Corruption, famine, war, natural disasters,

       10       poverty, overpopulation and so on.

       11                 In discussion sections, we talk about

       12       the origins of these negative impressions. 

       13       Students invariably point to the media and its

       14       tendency to portray these distant lands in

       15       sensational terms as a way of getting the reader's

       16       attention.

       17                 My goal in conducting this exercise is

       18       for students to recognize that they have a biased

       19       view of the nonwestern world.  The repeated focus

       20       on disasters, tragedies and suffering creates

       21       negative stereotypes of nonwestern peoples which

       22       prevents American students from seeing the

       23       positive aspects of third world cultures.

       24                 In short, one of the challenges I face,

 

 

 

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        1       and one which I greatly enjoy, is to make students

        2       come to terms with their ethnocentric views of

        3       nonwestern peoples and to see that their

        4       perspective is just one of many ways of living in

        5       this world.

        6                 The presence of Chief Illiniwek on

        7       campus undermines my pedagogical objective of

        8       challenging stereotypes and making students come

        9       to terms with their ethnocentric views.  Although

       10       many students view Chief Illiniwek in positive

       11       terms, he is nonetheless a stereotype that hinders

       12       our understanding of American Indian history and

       13       culture.

       14                 The Chief's lineage is directly tied to

       15       Buffalo Bill's wild west shows, the Boy Scouts and

       16       Hollywood westerns.  These are notoriously biased

       17       views of Native Americans that are inappropriate

       18       in a university setting.  Dressing up and playing

       19       Indian for half-time entertainment is greatly

       20       disrespectful to Native Americans.  Imagine a

       21       South African sporting event in which an Africana

       22       dresses up as a Sulu chief and dances at half-time

       23       to the cheers of a white audience.  We would

       24       consider such behavior shameful in the context of

 

 

 

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        1       the history of colonization, displacement and

        2       apartheid in that country.

        3                 Yet, we do it here on the campus of the

        4       University of Illinois.  Our government wave of

        5       systematic campaign of Indian removal and forced

        6       migration to make way for nonnative settlers, some

        7       would call it ethnic cleansing today.  Today we

        8       engage in the culturally insensitive act of having

        9       Anglo students masquerade as American Indians at

       10       our sporting events.

       11                 The contradiction between the

       12       University's mission of increasing student

       13       awareness of the diversity of places, peoples and

       14       cultures in today's society and the perpetuation

       15       of stereotypes that demean native peoples should

       16       be apparent to one and all.

       17                 Unfortunately, this is not the case. 

       18       The only appropriate solution to this

       19       contradiction is to retire Chief Illiniwek and

       20       create a new mascot and symbol that is befitting a

       21       first rate educational institution that purports

       22       to value diversity and respect for other cultures. 

       23       Thank you.

       24                 MS. CATHY HARPER:   I am a member of

 

 

 

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        1       this community, I am not directly affiliated with

        2       the University at all.  I have lived here for 20

        3       years.  I will probably live here until the day I

        4       die.  My husband and I are raising three children

        5       in this community and it's important to me as a

        6       member of this community to not have the Chief as

        7       a representative of the University.  My kids are

        8       involved in sports and we go to sport tournaments

        9       and meets in a lot of surrounding communities, a

       10       couple of these schools have an Indian mascot as

       11       their school, high school representative.

       12                 I have noticed that at these meets there

       13       are hundreds of people walking across mats with a

       14       Native American's face on the floor.  I remember

       15       reading about Charlene Teters doing an art exhibit

       16       where she had a mat with the U of I chief and she

       17       had a mat with Abe Lincoln, everybody walked

       18       around Abe Lincoln's face, but everybody proceeded

       19       to walk across the Native American representative

       20       symbol face on the mat.

       21                 And I think that is emblematic of the

       22       damage that happens to people's consciousness

       23       about other people, people are just trying to get

       24       in the door, they weren't trying to be

 

 

 

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        1       disrespectful to another person, but in walking on

        2       the mat as a matter of course as a matter of fact

        3       sort of thing, it communicates to themselves and

        4       other people, mainly Native American people that

        5       they, that they can be walked on and not

        6       respected.  So, I thought that was illustrative of

        7       what my concern is and I wanted to share it, since

        8       I had an opportunity to do it on camera.

        9                 MR. CHRIS DREW:  Chris Drew, and I am

       10       here to speak here for the Uptown Multi-cultural

       11       Art Center and artists who asked me to bring a

       12       message to the University.  The first, Lydia

       13       Tripone, for too long a period of time, history

       14       has not looked favorably upon the Native American. 

       15       We had misplaced our trust and we are still paying

       16       the price for that mistake, stereotypes throughout

       17       the ages, we have unfortunately become an

       18       endearing symbol of all that is primitive, behind

       19       the times and savage.

       20                 Our values and beliefs have taken center

       21       stage for your ridicule, your flagrant remarks and

       22       your total lack of regard for our ways of life as

       23       exemplified by your mascot.  We respect our elders

       24       and honor their place in our lives, the value of

 

 

 

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        1       life and cherish it in all forms.  You will find

        2       very few Native Americans behind bars.  We

        3       understand the importance of what we do and the

        4       profound importance it will have on our children

        5       and our children's children.

        6                 Most people today value only one life

        7       form, theirs, and they will walk over anyone who

        8       gets in the way to their goal.

        9                 That begs the question, who is the real

       10       primitive person, the savage?  When you come to

       11       this country with no knowledge of the terrain, who

       12       helped you back on your feet.  Without us you

       13       would never have made it.  This is the things you

       14       give us.  We are human beings who demand respect

       15       and not your current form of half-time

       16       entertainment.

       17                 Carlos Cortez.  Having usurped the land

       18       of the original inhabitants, along with 300 years

       19       of genocide, you insult the memory of our elders

       20       by making mascots of them.  Even Hitler did not do

       21       that, congratulations.  Carlos Cortez, Coyote's

       22       Song.

       23                 And Robert Waupauhee.  Your people

       24       constantly use the phrase, we are doing this to

 

 

 

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        1       honor you.  If that is a true statement, then we

        2       ask you, honor our wish and please stop.  Our

        3       community art center will publicize the struggle

        4       to help bring this institution of higher learning

        5       to a higher standard of human decency, one that

        6       rises above racism.  And anybody who has interest

        7       can check out our web site at art-teez.org.  We do

        8       the art of the tee shirt.  You can see us on the

        9       web.  Thank you.

       10                 MS. DESERE UNTOOB:  My name is Desere

       11       Untoob and my opinion about the symbol of the

       12       Chief Illiniwek symbol is that I really honestly

       13       believe that it's a racist symbol.  This movement,

       14       the Native American movement against racist

       15       mascots reminds me of the civil rights movement in

       16       the sixties.  The Native American people are the

       17       last -- minorities in this country are all

       18       struggling at this time.  But the Native American

       19       people are the last, most struggling minority and

       20       the most invisible minority in this country.

       21                 I am an alumni of the University of

       22       Illinois and I consider that a privilege to have

       23       had a very good education at this University and I

       24       believe that one part of my education is, has

 

 

 

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        1       been, has given me knowledge to understand that

        2       Chief Illiniwek is a racist symbol.  I understand

        3       that it's difficult for people to see how it is

        4       because we are so trained to understand it

        5       differently.

        6                 But if you really look at the

        7       implications of this symbol, it's really obviously

        8       racist.  I have become friends with a lot of

        9       Native American people on campus and the

       10       protesters who come here and I believe that they

       11       have an incredible amount of courage to step out

       12       against Chief Illiniwek.

       13                 It makes me really sad that people can't

       14       see that this symbol hurts other people.  And that

       15       it's more important to certain people to have a

       16       symbol that they enjoy partying with than

       17       considering the feelings of other people.  This is

       18       a major University and I know that the reputation

       19       of this University is being tarnished.  So, I hope

       20       that this dialogue is truly a dialogue and I hope

       21       that the Board of Trustees decides to do the right

       22       thing.  It's actually very, very sad and a shame

       23       that we don't understand that this needs to be

       24       changed.  I am done now.

 

 

 

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        1                 MR. NOBLE GLAUDELL:  My name is Noble

        2       Glaudell.  I represent six people who went to the

        3       University of Illinois, one lifetime Illini

        4       member, my son had two sons go here, two

        5       daughters, son-in-law, daughter-in-law and they

        6       all believe in the Chief.

        7                 I happened to find an orientation

        8       bulletin which I looked into and thought it was

        9       appropriate, because as you will note, the first

       10       thing that you read is, what is it?  Proud

       11       tradition, the Chief is a proud tradition.  He is

       12       unique, and as you go through the orientation

       13       bulletin, you go to academic excellence, some

       14       facts and motto, school colors, athletic teams and

       15       you get down to the last thing and it says spirit

       16       of the Fighting Illini Chief Illiniwek.

       17                 Everybody refers to him as a mascot.  He

       18       is not a mascot.  I called my kids back in '89

       19       when this was starting up and getting very strong

       20       and at the time I questioned them all and they

       21       said he is a symbol.  And that's what I feel.  I

       22       went to the University of Illinois Navy Pier, the

       23       representative thing that we had up there was what

       24       you call caricature and it was a picture similar

 

 

 

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        1       to the Cleveland Indians Chief Wauhoo or whatever. 

        2       It was kind of a copy off of an apple box, which

        3       is what they use.  That is a caricature.

        4                 The Chief is not a caricature.  He is a

        5       spirit, it's hard to imagine it until I came to

        6       this school and observed things.  The Chief was

        7       just something that was going on.  And every time

        8       I saw him, it's almost like a religious

        9       experience.  Hair on the neck stands up and it's

       10       every time.  He does not do anything out of the

       11       ordinary.  They can say that he does a high kick

       12       and everything that is fine.  But if there is any

       13       Illini Indians around that would like to correct

       14       and straighten out things to a certain respect,

       15       fine.

       16                 What else can I say about the Chief?  He

       17       is a spirit, years ago at the time this was going

       18       on, Iowa would not let him participate at a

       19       football game at Iowa.  And Illinois was the big

       20       underdog.  At the time and I am sure the coaches

       21       used this, after they found out the Chief didn't,

       22       wasn't allowed to come onto the field and

       23       whatever, they sort of whipped Iowa.  They didn't

       24       just beat them a little bit.  They killed them. 

 

 

 

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        1       They really did.

        2                 What else can I say about chief?  Every

        3       time I have seen him, I was fortunate enough to be

        4       at a football game when one of the local

        5       establishments went out to the west and bought his

        6       regalia.  It's not a costume, it's an actual

        7       outfit.  At the time there was an entourage, I

        8       think they were Cherokee Indians and a chief and

        9       the presentation was made on the football field at

       10       half-time.  Unless you were there, there was

       11       complete total silence when this was going on. 

       12       And the Chief could not speak English.  Did a

       13       prayer for the school in his native language and

       14       if you saw what was going on, there is no way the

       15       Chief is a caricature.  He's a symbol, he's a part

       16       of the spirit of Illinois, if the Chief has to go,

       17       then I say the trademark has to go and the

       18       Fighting Illini has to go.  Time is up.  Okay.

       19                 NANCY HENNE:  My name is Nancy Henne, I

       20       am from Bennett, Iowa, I am a Matisse, which is

       21       French and Indian.

       22                 And I have been coming over here

       23       probably testing for the last few years and very

       24       upset over this mascot issue because it makes my

 

 

 

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        1       children and my grandchildren upset because they

        2       think people are making fun of us.  I don't agree

        3       with the idea of the mascot because he is wearing

        4       Sioux regalia, which is a sacred thing to us. 

        5       It's not to be made fun of, it's part of our

        6       religion.  The man dances with no moccasins, you

        7       won't find any Indian dancing in the arena with no

        8       moccasins, that is a mockery of our way of praying

        9       to the Creator.

       10                 Before he had danced with eagle

       11       feathers, eagle feathers are for Native Americans,

       12       they are not for just anybody.  I hear that this

       13       University here has ten headdresses that have

       14       eagle feathers in them that I have been told are

       15       here and should be returned back to the Native

       16       American people because each one of those feathers

       17       is supposed to be earned, not given.

       18                 I guess that's all I really want to say.

       19                 MR. MARK BUTCHER:  Mark Butcher.  I came

       20       here from North Carolina, I am against the idea

       21       that Native American heritage is being defiled in

       22       the eyes of our people and with little to say, the

       23       main thing I would like to say is we hear each

       24       other's words and as the words of people who have

 

 

 

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        1       the authority to speak more wisely about the issue

        2       today are heard, instead of just with ears, I hope

        3       their words are heard with the hearts of other

        4       people so that the feelings of our people can be

        5       understood.  It's time for all of us to look at

        6       our heritage and to begin to understand the

        7       importance of having a mutual respect for each

        8       other.  That's my prayer and hope today.  That's

        9       all I have to say.

       10                 MR. MATT TITTLE:  My name is Matt

       11       Tittle.  I work at the University's Campus Honors

       12       Program.  I am an alumni of the University and I

       13       am still a graduate student of the University as

       14       well.

       15                 First I will start with a reading by a

       16       Native American writer, Margaret Thunderburg: 

       17       "They came for our land for what grew or could be

       18       grown on it, for the resources in it and for our

       19       clean air and pure water.  They stole these things

       20       from us, and in taking these, they also stole our

       21       free ways and the best of our leaders, killed in

       22       battle or assassinated.  And now after all that,

       23       they have come for our very last of our

       24       possessions, now they want our pride, our history,

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 21

 

        1       our spiritual traditions.  They want to rewrite

        2       and remake these things to claim them for

        3       themselves.  The lies and thefts just never end."

        4                 Chief Illiniwek represents an

        5       unacceptable symbol of an oppressed people.  As

        6       long as this fictitious stereotype remains the

        7       University's symbol, the inclusiveness of Native

        8       American students, faculty and staff will be

        9       impossible.  Simply put, Native Americans are

       10       people, not mascots.

       11                 America is fortunately outgrowing its

       12       white male dominated belittling of minority groups

       13       and is learning to respect individual rights.  We

       14       recognize that representation of any minority

       15       group as one dimensional devalues the living

       16       members of that group.  Therefore, a sharecropping

       17       African America, a money hungry Jew, a gun

       18       slinging Mexican America or a Kyoto like Chinaman,

       19       a Playboy bunny or a Samurai warrior, would all be

       20       met with outrage, disgust and legal implications

       21       were the University to try to adopt such

       22       stereotypes as their symbol.

       23                 What would happen in Washington if the

       24       Redskins were renamed the Blackskins?  The result

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 22

 

        1       would be catastrophic because everyone recognizes

        2       the racial overtones of such an action.  How is it

        3       then that we can have a Native American

        4       stereotype, a Native American warrior stereotype

        5       as our symbol.

        6                 Some supporters recommend that the

        7       problem could be solved with a democratic vote or

        8       simply that years of tradition is more important

        9       that being politically correct.  The argument

       10       cannot be about majority opinion or tradition. 

       11       The majority has already decided that

       12       discrimination and racism is morally and legally

       13       wrong.  Based on years of civil rights

       14       legislation, ethnic minorities have been

       15       recognized and provided equality under the law. 

       16       To vote locally on Chief Illiniwek would be a vote

       17       on civil rights.  Those rights have already been

       18       guaranteed and need no further review.

       19                 In a town where the majority of the

       20       citizens were white supremacists, would a vote be

       21       allowed to determine if lynchings could resume. 

       22       Traditions change especially in recent years. 

       23       Women are no longer traditionally housekeepers any

       24       more than men are traditional bread winners. 

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 23

 

        1       African Americans are no longer slaves and Native

        2       Americans are no longer warriors or sidekicks.  To

        3       argue that Illiniwek represents tradition is

        4       unfounded.  Hazing was once traditional but is

        5       illegal.

        6                 If the University and Chief Illiniwek

        7       supporters are serious about paying tribute to the

        8       Native American heritage of Illinois, then they

        9       could do so in a more serious manner.  A monument

       10       could be erected to the Illinois Indians.  Native

       11       American cultural studies could be established at

       12       the University.  A variety of culture awareness

       13       events could be established.  Scholarships could

       14       be started.  At a minimum, Illiniwek supporters

       15       should each go to the Illinois Historical Survey

       16       Library on campus and learn what the Illinois

       17       Indians were really like and what happened to

       18       them.

       19                 I did just that and learned that the

       20       present day descendents of the Illinois nation

       21       number only in the hundreds.  They were

       22       effectively eliminated by white settlers as were

       23       so many Indian nations.  Our state and University

       24       are named after the Illiniwek Indians.  This is

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 24

 

        1       respectful.

        2                 As an alumni of the University, as an

        3       employee of the University, I am embarrassed by

        4       the symbol.  As an alumni of the University, I

        5       refuse to join the Alumni Association until the

        6       symbol is eliminated.  Thanks.

        7                 MS. LORI KINGERY:  My name is Lori

        8       Kingery.  I don't know what to say and speaking

        9       makes me kind of nervous, I have props here.  I am

       10       an alumni of the University, that is something at

       11       this point I am not proud of.  You know, I would

       12       like to be proud of that.  I know that I wouldn't

       13       give any money to the University of Illinois while

       14       they had Illiniwek in place.  He is not a chief. 

       15       That's absurd.  That is like saying he is the

       16       president of the US or something.  It's

       17       frightening to me that the Board of Trustees would

       18       put racism ahead, even if you call it tradition,

       19       you know, there are a lot of traditions in this

       20       country we are not yet proud of.  And it's

       21       frightening to me that they would put racism ahead

       22       of people.

       23                 Some of the things I have been noticing

       24       recently are the Employees Credit Union had a

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 25

 

        1       symbol that was chief oriented, you can't see it

        2       here, but they used to have it on all their little

        3       stuff.  They have changed it.  They have gotten

        4       with the program, sort of.

        5                 This is not very long ago, sometime this

        6       year, I believe, there was an ad for a local

        7       restaurant that is using chief logos or whatever. 

        8       The U of I says this stuff doesn't happen, we

        9       respect him, whatever.

       10                 But the most distressing one for me was

       11       yesterday's DI.  Pro-Chief, anti-Chief, what is in

       12       the sports section "Illini Chop Sycamores."  It

       13       doesn't happen in our community?  Yes, it does. 

       14       And it hurts our community and it hurts our

       15       respect of the University of Illinois and it hurts

       16       other communities when we go there to play sports

       17       and act like idiots like this.

       18                 And there is a lot more that could be

       19       said and I am sure that other people are saying

       20       it.  But I also think that it's strange that there

       21       is a big huge event on campus that has been

       22       planned for like two years that happens to be

       23       today, so you will see there are no women here

       24       pretty much because they are all in the Assembly

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 26

 

        1       Hall.  And all the women from the University and

        2       local businesses are crowding in the Assembly Hall

        3       for a women's conference that's been planned for a

        4       really long time.  This has been planned for a

        5       short amount of time.  And of course it's on the

        6       same day.  If you see the parking for this event,

        7       which is right across the street from that, there

        8       are like five cars there.  It's not seven in the

        9       morning, it's ten or something.

       10                 I got a letter saying that I could send

       11       e-mail about this thing.  It didn't mention the

       12       event whatever.  I don't think this is really a

       13       democratic process.  I think it's a farce.  Thank

       14       you.

       15                 MR. LEONARD MALATERE:  My name is

       16       Leonard Malatere, I am an enrolled member of the

       17       Confederated Tribe of the Flat Headed Indian

       18       reservation in Northwestern Montana.  I would like

       19       to come here today and my heart is heavy, because

       20       what, because of this ongoing issue of the Chief

       21       Illiniwek and other sports organizations who use

       22       Native American mascots.  And my heart is really

       23       heavy.  So I would like to come to share what I

       24       feel.

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 27

 

        1                 And I would like to talk a little bit

        2       about Native American, the indigenous peoples of

        3       this land spirituality, the indigenous peoples,

        4       the original people of this land had a deep, deep

        5       spiritual connection with Mother Earth.  There was

        6       the power of woman who was made in the likeness of

        7       God, the Indian woman was made in the likeness of

        8       God.  They had the power to recreate herself. 

        9       They had the power to rule.  But in knowing this,

       10       she had to humble herself to allow the man who was

       11       made from nothing to have a chance to walk close

       12       to God.  And the man, the only way that he could

       13       walk close to God was through a vision.  And the

       14       vision had to be for the good of the people.  And

       15       in this way in keeping the scope on his vision

       16       through the entirety of his life, then man walked

       17       close to God.

       18                 And these people, these indigenous

       19       people were very, very spiritual.  We can't

       20       understand how spiritual they were, because they

       21       speak this foreign language, I speak this foreign

       22       language, this English, and I think in these

       23       foreign terms.  So I can't even begin to

       24       understand how the people a long, long time ago

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 28

 

        1       really truly felt.  But they had a connection with

        2       Mother Earth.  They had a connection, they had a

        3       love affair with Mother Earth.

        4                 And they knew some truths, they knew the

        5       truth that there was a Creator and in order to

        6       walk with that Creator, they had to live in

        7       balance and harmony with all that Mother Earth had

        8       to offer, not abuse her or misuse her, not

        9       mistreat her, but to walk in balance and harmony. 

       10       And they knew this as a truth.  And their whole

       11       lives they were seekers, great, great seekers of

       12       knowledge and wisdom.  The whole lives were spent

       13       seeking out knowledge and wisdom in order to

       14       better live in balance and harmony with the

       15       Creator and Mother Earth and all that they had to

       16       offer.

       17                 They were learners.  They spent their

       18       whole lives learning.  And they were also

       19       teachers.  They were educators.  They educated

       20       their children to live this life and to understand

       21       Mother Nature and all that Mother Earth and all

       22       that they had to offer.  They were great

       23       educators.

       24                 And their greatest blessing in life was

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 29

 

        1       knowing that they educated their children well to

        2       grow up with values and morals, to be virtuous in

        3       their hearts to have respect, that's what it was

        4       all about was about respect.  Respect for Mother

        5       Earth, respect for the Creator, respect for one

        6       another.  And they had no fear of death because

        7       they were very spiritual, they had no fear of

        8       death, they were brave, strong-hearted people.

        9                 What they feared, what they feared most

       10       in life was to be shamed, to be shamed.  And yet

       11       we had one of those indigenous peoples live not so

       12       far from this great metropolis of Champaign, right

       13       here in this area, we are walking upon the ground

       14       of the Illini people, these great, great people

       15       who were educators and lovers of Mother Earth. 

       16       They had a love affair with Mother Earth.  And

       17       right here today we have one of the great

       18       institutions, academic institutions of the United

       19       States, the University of Illinois at

       20       Champaign-Urbana.  And they are about teaching for

       21       future generations.

       22                 But I think they are excluding the

       23       Native American people out of this when they can

       24       make a mockery out of a great people like the

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 30

 

        1       Fighting Illini who were about education

        2       themselves.  What is going on here?  I think it's

        3       time that we all grow up and take a look at

        4       ourselves because if we can't be at peace within

        5       ourselves, we can't be at peace with all that

        6       Mother Earth has to offer.  Thank you.

        7                 MS. YVONNE MURRY:  My name is Yvonne

        8       Murry and this is my daughter, Diana Stimpel.  And

        9       she is a student here at the University of

       10       Illinois.  She's of Native American descent as I

       11       am.  And she is just starting her second year.  I

       12       am a public interest attorney.  I operate in the

       13       area of housing law in the city of Chicago but I

       14       am here today as a Native American and as a parent

       15       of a student here at the University of Illinois to

       16       say that, number one, that my gratitude to this

       17       school for providing such a wonderful educational

       18       opportunity for my daughter.  This has been one of

       19       the finest educational opportunities that she's

       20       had in her life, her short life.

       21                 Number two, I would like to say I

       22       understand and have talked to a number of

       23       University of Illinois alumni and understand their

       24       concern and their loyalty to the school and can

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 31

 

        1       appreciate how that has gotten tied up with the

        2       Chief Illiniwek as a symbol of the school pride.

        3                 And I am sure there is a great deal of

        4       confusion as to why the Chief elicits such a

        5       strong response from Indian people.  Quite frankly

        6       to me, it's the idea of the Chief sometimes is a

        7       little bit like nails on the chalk board.  And I

        8       suppose it would be helpful if I told you why.

        9                 Number one, the Chief Illiniwek here at

       10       the University of Illinois is a young man.  And

       11       generally Native American chiefs are mature

       12       Indians, mature men or women.  So there is really

       13       sort of this picture doesn't quite fit in terms of

       14       his role or his station in Indian culture.

       15                 Also, the Chief is dressed in

       16       traditional Indian attire.  Individuals that are

       17       dressed in traditional Indian attire walk slowly,

       18       dance slowly with dignity, measured steps.  And

       19       from what I have seen of Chief Illiniwek, his

       20       performances at half-time, it's a little bit

       21       frantic, at times I thought it was a little bit

       22       like Richard Simmons on too much espresso.

       23                 Number two is that Native American dance

       24       is spiritual in nature and when Indians dance,

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 32

 

        1       what they are doing essentially is offering their

        2       prayers to God or to the spirits around us.  And I

        3       don't think that is the spirit or the intent of

        4       Chief Illiniwek.  It's more in the spirit of

        5       school spirit.  And team spirit.

        6                 Also too, I don't think that this school

        7       would allow images of African Americans such as we

        8       wouldn't have black Sambo dancing at half-time. 

        9       We wouldn't have a Mexican in a serape and a

       10       sombrero dancing at half-time.  All of these old

       11       stereotypical images, most folks, educated folks

       12       would think twice about presenting these images. 

       13       So it's difficult to come to terms with the idea

       14       of a Native American image taken so much out of

       15       context and allow that to be one of the symbols of

       16       this great school.  Racism, stereotypes perpetuate

       17       racism.

       18                 And as we know here at the University of

       19       Illinois, racism hurts, cripples and kills people. 

       20       And so I think it would be important to put an end

       21       to this misunderstanding of this imagery and find

       22       another symbol, one that is less offensive to a

       23       great number of people.  Thank you.

       24                 MR. DANIEL GREEN:  Daniel Green, I am a,

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 33

 

        1       I am a member of the Ho-Chunk nation from

        2       Wisconsin.  And my concern for the logo or mascot

        3       issue is the context in which America knows Native

        4       Americans and that context is always the same

        5       regardless of commercial film, textbook,

        6       generational knowledge.  It's always the same. 

        7       It's an archaic image.  It's one of primitiveness. 

        8       It's one of unaccomplishment.

        9                 And my concern for that is that my

       10       children may grow up with the same low

       11       self-concept that I did, that my parents did and

       12       so on.  And that results in a suicide rate that is

       13       four times, four times the national average.

       14                 If you take a look at the socioeconomic

       15       statistics in this country, you will find Native

       16       America at the bottom, as a rule.  That is no

       17       accident.  And I think that has to do with this

       18       context, this bombardment that all of us are

       19       subject to have this image that is always the

       20       same.  I can't think of anything more antithetical

       21       for an institution of education or for anyone who

       22       has compassion for their fellow beings to

       23       perpetuate, to be a part of that that results in

       24       such dire consequences.

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 34

 

        1                 I appreciate the time.  I appreciate the

        2       openness.  Thanks.

        3                 MS. NORA LLOYD:  My name is Nora Lloyd,

        4       and I am with the Women's Leadership Development

        5       Group from NAES College in Chicago, which is

        6       Native American Educational Services.  During the

        7       ongoing dispute regarding University of Illinois'

        8       use of Chief Illiniwek as their mascot, much has

        9       been said about the act of honoring by those in

       10       favor, as well as those of us against keeping the

       11       Chief.  So I think it appropriate to define the

       12       word honor for it is not a word to be used

       13       lightly.

       14                 We honor those that have gone before us. 

       15       Many laying down their very lives to preserve and

       16       thus honor their heritage, in other words, their

       17       story.  For what is more important to a people

       18       than their collective story.

       19                 Indeed, traditionally, every culture has

       20       held in highest esteem those community members who

       21       courageously honored their communal history and

       22       self-identify by making the ultimate sacrifice, as

       23       well as our elders to ensure that our nation and

       24       our story would continue on unchanged.

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 35

 

        1                 With that in mind, I find the argument

        2       that Chief Illiniwek is honoring or paying tribute

        3       to Native Americans absurd.  Firstly, it is

        4       documented that the acrobatic gyrations performed

        5       by the Chief have no basis in traditional dance

        6       and is therefore a charade.

        7                 Secondly, wearing an eagle headdress

        8       considered by many tribes to be sacred while

        9       playing Indian, is an affront to those who earned

       10       the right to wear an eagle feather.

       11                 Lastly, using Chief Illiniwek, which is

       12       essentially a caricature of the Native American,

       13       as a merchandising gimmick is the ultimate insult. 

       14       What honor is there in misappropriating a people's

       15       identity for a profit.

       16                 Part of what makes us all human is that

       17       we are all participating in the cooperative

       18       community of humanity.  Many nations coming

       19       together while proudly retaining our individual

       20       stories.  I appeal to the Board and the University

       21       to end the duplicity and stop trying to rob us of

       22       our heritage.  From the beginning you have hidden 

       23       behind your intention to honor Native Americans as

       24       educators, many look to you to uphold a higher

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 36

 

        1       standard.  You now have the opportunity to

        2       practice what you have preached all these years. 

        3       Show the rest of the state and parts of the

        4       country how you define honor by not using a Native

        5       American as your mascot.  Thank you.

        6                 DR. FRANK JOHNSON:  I am Frank P.

        7       Johnson, MD, and I am very pleased to be here

        8       today.  Before I come forward with some of my

        9       thoughts that I sent in the mail a couple of weeks

       10       ago, I would like to comment that John Mennega,

       11       who is the chief, he is head of the foundation,

       12       the educational foundation for the Chief. 

       13       Marvelous speaker and a marvelous demonstration of

       14       reasons to keep the Chief.  Also, Jean Edwards did

       15       a fine job.

       16                 My thoughts:   While groups of activist

       17       Native Americans are likely well intended in their

       18       attack on Chief Illiniwek, chronic rage over the

       19       white man's dominance and ruthless annihilation of

       20       Indian culture fuels their anger and attack,

       21       preventing them from appreciating the symbolized

       22       honor, bravery and dignity of the Chief.  He may

       23       not be Indian authentic, but by neutral view, he

       24       does not demean Native American heritage.  The

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 37

 

        1       Atlanta Braves and many of their fans may be so

        2       indicted, but they are much harder to get to than

        3       a university.

        4                 It's more than likely that most Native

        5       Americans would not be disturbed by the Chief,

        6       although standing up against activist pressure

        7       would be difficult.  We are not dealing with a

        8       popularity contest in determining whether or not

        9       to keep, quote, the Chief.  But moreover, an

       10       effort to establish whether he represents dignity

       11       and honor, or is a trivialized mockery.  He

       12       represents dignity and honor.

       13                 Unfortunately, many who are more or less

       14       neutral regarding the Chief will be swayed by the

       15       strong emotions displayed by those who do not

       16       favor him.  Students and faculty would be the

       17       least inclined to identify with the history and

       18       tradition of the Chief who symbolizes honor,

       19       bravery and dignity.  Faculty are by and large

       20       academically oriented and students new to the

       21       experience of the Chief.

       22                 The alumni represent the most apt, those

       23       who are most apt to identify with his symbolized,

       24       positive value.  Organized objection is relatively

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 38

 

        1       recent.  During the earlier years, his dance and

        2       costume were modified by contact with Native

        3       Americans regarding these matters.  And I think

        4       that's what I got to say.

        5                 MR. ELI SUZUKOVICH:  Hello, my name is

        6       Eli Suzukovich, I am an alumni of the University

        7       of Illinois at Chicago and I am Native American. 

        8       My mother is Creek and Matee from the Matee

        9       Nation, Local 57 of the Daytro First Nations of

       10       the Northwest Territories, Fort Providence.

       11                 And when I was choosing schools, Urbana

       12       was not a choice for me because of this mascot. 

       13       It is offensive and it is sad that an institution

       14       that promotes education cares more about a mascot

       15       than, you know, the welfare of its students.  It

       16       shows that they do not care.  The University of

       17       Illinois at Chicago got rid of its Native American

       18       mascot in 1969 because they cared about what their

       19       students felt and what they thought.  And I think

       20       Urbana and Champaign should follow suit.

       21                 It's a new millennium, it's a new time,

       22       the days of vaudeville are dead.  It's time to

       23       move on.  And I think people, the motto, the

       24       traditions of this school should not be a mascot,

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 39

 

        1       but should be education and the continuing growth

        2       of knowledge and as alumni I am saying that. 

        3       Thank you.

        4                 MS. APRIL PIERCE:  I am not necessarily

        5       pro-Chief or anti-Chief although I have been to

        6       events for both of them and I am friends with the

        7       Chief and the assistant Chief and all that.  But I

        8       kind of have a compromise, like an answer to the

        9       debate.  The pro-Chief side says that the symbol

       10       is dignified and it's an honor and all that, but

       11       then the anti-Chief side is saying that having a

       12       white college student dress as an Indian is

       13       degrading.

       14                 So, keep the symbol but lose the Chief. 

       15       So the University would still be called the

       16       Fighting Illini and have the symbol, but by

       17       getting rid of the half-time performance and the

       18       costume, then the anti-Chief people, that would go

       19       ahead and get rid of everything they are saying

       20       about the degrading and the stereotype.  And then

       21       everyone would be happy.  And that's all I have to

       22       say.

       23                 MR. WEYLIN WEBSTER WILLIAMS:  My name is

       24       Weylin Webster Williams, I am a member of the

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 40

 

        1       Odoah tribe from Sault St. Marie, Michigan, and I

        2       Seneca from New York, Tanawana Falls. 

        3                 Two words, Chief Illiniwek, is that

        4       right?  Chief Illiniwek.  First of all, there was

        5       no chief among these people hundreds of years ago

        6       or as it took place there was no chief upon these

        7       people.  So how do you create a chief that never

        8       existed?  Is it publicity, is it imagination, is

        9       it a fictional story written up that you guys made

       10       months, years ago?

       11                 Illiniwek, it's an English word

       12       probably, a French word, a German word, but you

       13       know what I am saying, it's not a word that we

       14       would say, it's not spoken in a language.  I guess

       15       that's why we are here because of little things

       16       like that, that I have a question if you guys can

       17       answer?  Do you guys serve alcohol at your

       18       football games?  And if that's a question that you

       19       cannot answer, it probably is a yes.  First off

       20       the bat, in our ways, our traditional ways from a

       21       hundred years ago, tobacco, yes, it's bad, but you

       22       know, it's 2000, alcohol, right off the bat, at

       23       pow-wow ceremonies, any place that we have a

       24       festival, a feast, a gathering of our people,

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 41

 

        1       there is no alcohol allowed.  And that is honor,

        2       you know, we come clean, we come in those ways of

        3       all four directions.

        4                 So right off the bat you are coming at

        5       us saying that Chief Illiniwek is honoring us.  He

        6       honors all these people, gives them this great

        7       feeling of hope when they are at the game.  Only

        8       one man can do that, right?  But if you think

        9       about it, by half-time, you have a couple of beers

       10       in you, you are nice and mellow.  You look at this

       11       guy on the field, you are all like yeah, you know,

       12       that's sportsmanship I would look at it.

       13                 It's not honor.  It's not what we call

       14       honor I guess or respect, because we don't jump

       15       around making fun of other nationalities.  All

       16       right.

       17                 I know I have a lot to say, I have to go

       18       back downstairs and speak in a minute.  Questions,

       19       I probably will never get the answer to?  Where

       20       did Chief Illiniwek, he's not a chief, where did

       21       the mascot, who created the mascot?  I probably

       22       know where they got the idea from.  Why has this

       23       mascot not been terminated within the past ten or

       24       eleven years that this battle has been fought for. 

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 42

 

        1       It's just a mascot, it's the year 2000, you know,

        2       let times change.

        3                 Things are changing, things are getting

        4       more technology.  What we are fighting for is

        5       really simple, we are not asking a lot.  But

        6       people assume -- also I think it's for publicity,

        7       for ten years this school has been saying, oh,

        8       Chief Illiniwek, you know, you get that in the

        9       papers, you got more people looking at your

       10       college saying, it's a university, you know.  It's

       11       just publicity I think.  It's just a waste of

       12       time, a waste of money that you guys put into this

       13       school.  Like today we are sitting up on this

       14       board, or we are sitting here watching this board,

       15       they are sitting there, they are sitting there and

       16       they are getting paid to make a decision that they

       17       haven't made in the last ten years.  That's a nice

       18       little chunk of money in their pocket.  That's my

       19       time.  Thank you very much.

       20                 MS. JANET TUCKER:  My name is Janet

       21       Tucker.  This is my message.  The Chief Illiniwek

       22       entity should be eliminated because it is racially

       23       offensive to Native Americans.  No public poll

       24       results and no oratorical devices and no

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 43

 

        1       outpouring of sentiment can change the fact that a

        2       racially offensive entity has no place in a

        3       university that celebrates diversity.  Thank you.

        4                 MR. RONALD JORDAN:  My name is Ronald

        5       Jordan.  I prefer to be called Manapayga, that

        6       means warrior.  I am a pipe carrier in the Turtle

        7       Clan of the Oniack People of the Iroquois Nation. 

        8       And I speak to schools, many schools, I would like

        9       to come down here sometime and maybe speak about

       10       my people, because Native American history is not

       11       taught in schools, not the way it should be

       12       taught.  Usually it is either book learning, they

       13       never have any Native American experience, the

       14       instructors.

       15                 I was born and raised on a reservation. 

       16       I am strictly traditional Native American.  I

       17       spent 40 years working in a white man's world as

       18       an engineer.  I designed control systems for power

       19       plants, both nuclear and fossil.  So I come in

       20       contact with a lot of people, I traveled the

       21       United States extensively, from all the corners,

       22       from Washington state down to Florida, from

       23       California to Maine.  And wherever I go, the white

       24       people I come across have virtually no knowledge

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 44

 

        1       of my people.  And wherever I go, the first thing

        2       I tell them is when I leave here, you are going to

        3       be Native American literate, because I believe

        4       that I am a Native American ambassador to the

        5       white man's world.

        6                 If you have any questions about my

        7       people, ask me, don't accept what you see in the

        8       movies.  The movies are wrong.  Virtually every

        9       movie I have ever seen has nothing to do with the

       10       Native American people.  That's why we come to

       11       this Illiniwek issue.

       12                 I have a lot of protest against some of

       13       the terms and symbols and so forth that are used

       14       by the white people depicting Native American

       15       people.  I have nothing against the Blackhawk

       16       symbol which is what it is.  It's a symbol.  And

       17       it represents Chief Blackhawk.

       18                 I have nothing against the term Indians

       19       as in the Cleveland Indians.  What I am against is

       20       the derogatory terminology such as the Washington

       21       Redskins, and Atlanta used to have this clown who

       22       used to come out and dance, jump around when every

       23       home run was hit called Chief Nakahoma.  These

       24       symbols are exactly what I am against because just

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 45

 

        1       by looking at them it bothers us because it shows

        2       that the people who came up with these ideas have

        3       absolutely no knowledge of my people.  They have

        4       no idea, no concept of what our traditions are,

        5       what our beliefs are and what our taboos are.  And

        6       we come back to Illiniwek.

        7                 I have nothing against using the term

        8       and the symbol Illiniwek for the University for

        9       the ball teams.  What I have is against this

       10       mascot.  Those eagle feathers he is wearing, I

       11       understand somebody gave them to him.  They had no

       12       right to do that.  And being as I am a pipe

       13       carrier sort on the religious side of the tribe,

       14       these eagle feathers are very, very important

       15       religious articles to all tribes, not just mine. 

       16       All the Native American people.  We believe that

       17       when the Great Spirit comes down to visit his

       18       people, he comes down in the form of an eagle. 

       19       And when a warrior is killed in combat, he goes up

       20       as an eagle.  These eagle feathers represent

       21       spirits of dead warriors.

       22                 What I am asking you to do is study

       23       Illiniwek, find out where he came from, make sure

       24       that this symbol you are using is accurate because

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 46

 

        1       we do not believe it is.  And it would be better

        2       off if you didn't use it, because it's humiliating

        3       to us, humiliating and degrading to us and it

        4       makes you look all the more ignorant for using it. 

        5       Thank you.

        6                 MR. BOB CRAFT:  My name is Bob Craft.  I

        7       live here in Champaign, Illinois.  I would just

        8       like to say that I am a graduate of the University

        9       of Illinois, class of 1950.  I am a lifetime

       10       member of the Alumni Association and I proudly

       11       support the Chief Illiniwek.

       12                 I certainly endorse everything that he

       13       has done and hope that he will do in the future. 

       14       I think that I would be proud if I were an

       15       American native to be represented by such a first

       16       class individual as we have had each and every

       17       year.  Again, make no bones about it, I fully

       18       support Chief Illiniwek for the University of

       19       Illinois.  Thank you.

       20                 MR. CARL KRON:  My name is Carl Kron.  I

       21       am a life-time resident of the state of Illinois,

       22       born in Normal, raised in Makanda and I now work

       23       and live in Naperville, Illinois.

       24                 I have been concerned with the portrayal

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 47

 

        1       of the Chief Illiniwek for some time.  The thing

        2       that bothers me the most is the totally inaccurate

        3       portrayal of the Chief.  The stereotype that the

        4       Chief portrays.

        5                 Simply taking another culture, the

        6       Dakota culture and appropriating it in the Illini

        7       culture and then having a third misappropriation

        8       of having just simply white people then portray an

        9       inaccurate portrayal of natives.

       10                 I have been told that many, many times

       11       that the Chief is simply a revered symbol and not

       12       a mascot.  Fine, that is just words.  They say

       13       that a mascot doesn't run around and act crazy and

       14       do goal posting and such.  But however, when the

       15       symbol leaves the paper and turns into a three-

       16       dimensional form, that is in my view a mascot.

       17                 Purdue University has a mascot, it is a

       18       massive train.  I have never seen that train be

       19       goal posted.  And they call that train their

       20       mascot.

       21                 People say that the symbol is revered

       22       and it's not, not portrayed in the stereotypical

       23       form.  Florida State has this symbol.

       24                 Well, University of Illinois had the

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 48

 

        1       same portrayal of this running savage.  Well, you

        2       end up having Chief Illiniwek basketball, tomahawk

        3       and everything.  I would like to also point out

        4       that these are officially licensed products bought

        5       at major national retail stores, mainly K-Mart and

        6       such.  Another slam dunk Illiniwek, officially

        7       licensed version.  Honored symbol.  Tomahawk and

        8       menacing look.  Another officially licensed

        9       version.  This is the symbol which the athletic

       10       department says is the only, is the official

       11       symbol.  However, on the back you then have the

       12       touchdown Chief Illiniwek, again slam dunk

       13       Illiniwek with his Nike shoes.

       14                 So much for the honored symbol.  There

       15       is, you know, it's just a lot of it is just

       16       semantics, symbol, mascot.  The opponents of

       17       Illiniwek, you know, say that disparage the

       18       people, native people because they might be full

       19       blood, however, they build up people who are

       20       native ancestry and say, you know, this person who

       21       has ancestry supports Illiniwek.  This person who

       22       lives in Decatur who has native ancestry supports

       23       Illiniwek.  However, you take a person who is not

       24       full blood and they are disparaged.

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 49

 

        1                 So, I truly urge the Board of Trustees

        2       to retire Chief Illiniwek.  Thank you.

        3                 MS. STEPHANIE CORD:  Hello, my name is

        4       Stephanie Cord, and I am a student here at the

        5       University of Illinois, a junior.  I graduated

        6       from a small town and grew up there all my life,

        7       it's only like 30 miles away from Champaign-Urbana

        8       so I have been familiar with the Chief and its

        9       debates all my life.

       10                 The first comment I would like to make

       11       is in regards to a comment that was made by the

       12       Native American tribe of youth from Chicago.  I am

       13       personally unaware from being a student here at

       14       the U of I of anybody being asked to ignore their

       15       identity and hide where their traditions of their

       16       families come from.

       17                 I also find it very disrespectful the

       18       way that the anti-Chief people are acting while

       19       the support for Chief people are talking.  I don't

       20       feel personally that Chief Illiniwek is a cartoon. 

       21       I think it's an honor that can keep the people in

       22       Illinois aware of the Indians.  When I was a kid I

       23       think when I saw Chief Illiniwek, it made me want

       24       to learn about Indians and their heritage even

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 50

 

        1       more.

        2                 As a matter of fact, when my family took

        3       me on a vacation, we were in Canada one time and

        4       there was an Indian tribe nearby, we were at a

        5       restaurant and I heard people talking about it.  I

        6       wanted to go, because I wanted to see their

        7       traditional dances and stuff.  So I think it made

        8       me want to be educated about the Native American

        9       heritage even more so than what I learned in

       10       school did.  I also don't see why people jump on a

       11       bandwagon to get rid of symbols like the rebels or

       12       Vikings or Sabers or anything that respectfully

       13       honors our past and our heritage.

       14                 I think that there could be a compromise

       15       made between the two groups.  The Native American

       16       people shouldn't see it as a discrimination, but

       17       they should see it as a way to keep their heritage

       18       alive.  And to make it aware, more people aware of

       19       where they come from instead of hiding it.

       20                 I was unaware also that students here at

       21       the U of I have been embarrassed of the Chief.  I

       22       have attended a lot of football games and

       23       basketball games and every time I leave or

       24       half-time, people stay around just to see the

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 51

 

        1       Chief.  And that's more ironic is when the Chief

        2       is done, everybody is so solemn and participates

        3       with it, and when is he leaving, everybody is

        4       yelling, I love you, Chief.  I never see anybody

        5       there hollering get rid of the Chief, I hate you

        6       Chief, anything like that.

        7                 So I just feel that it's an honor for

        8       our community to keep it, more than just as a

        9       tradition.  I think that U of I maybe on their own

       10       could take the steps to make the dance more

       11       authentic more than they have.  Thank you.

       12                 MS. JACQUELINE FRENCH:  Jacqueline

       13       French.  My parents names are Jim and Gwen French,

       14       they are both alumni from the University, class of

       15       1969, as is my older sister Stephanie French

       16       Raquel, who is now married to the former Chief

       17       Illiniwek, Steve Raquel.  On behalf of my family,

       18       we are very much in favor of supporting our

       19       mascot, Chief Illiniwek.

       20                 Growing up, I knew from my parents that

       21       the Chief was an honored symbol and they were at

       22       the football game present when the first eagle

       23       feather headdress was given.  So as a current

       24       University student, I am a senior graduating this

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 52

 

        1       May, I look forward to being an alum who is proud

        2       of my University and proud of my mascot.

        3                 And some of the arguments which I have

        4       just heard puzzled me because I don't want anyone

        5       to feel disrespected or having to hide their

        6       identity or feel that Chief Illiniwek is anything

        7       out to hurt an individual, rather growing up for

        8       me, I learned that the Chief was something that

        9       was a part of Illinois, part of the midwest, part

       10       of American history and I am thankful for what

       11       this University has taught me, both before I came

       12       to school here and with education that I have

       13       received.

       14                 And I hope that the Board is able to

       15       take into consideration how many youth of this

       16       state have been affected by the Chief, not only

       17       just Native American youth.

       18                 MR. PAUL YOUTH:  My name is Paul Youth. 

       19       I am a civil service employee at the U of I, I am

       20       over here on my lunch half-hour, I have to run

       21       back to work.  But I thought I would take a moment

       22       out and tell you that I am shamed by the

       23       continuation of this rather mocking motto.  Anyone

       24       who can say it's honorific after watching a flying

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 53

 

        1       split on the field, it's ludicrous to imagine that

        2       people can be serious on that part.

        3                 However, if you are going to be

        4       recalcitrant and not get rid of this mascot as

        5       soon as possible, the least you can do is start a

        6       program for actually studying for what Native

        7       Americans are suffering now and have suffered in

        8       the past.

        9                 I think that the BOT ought to enroll in

       10       the classes.  It's very important that you make an

       11       educated decision on this as you are exemplars of

       12       an education institution of some esteem, though

       13       less and less as we read some of the editorials

       14       around even the state of Illinois, the Chicago

       15       Tribune, the Sun Times, the NCA, the North Central

       16       Association Times has a scathing review of this

       17       mascot and what it's doing to the people who are

       18       the survivors of this, the indigenous peoples here

       19       on the US.

       20                 And Illinois has a particular position

       21       in this because it was the most successful of the

       22       Indian removal act, I guess.  Trail of Tears

       23       passed directly through Champaign, Illinois,

       24       perhaps some of the profiteers who fed these

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 54

 

        1       people so poorly that most of them died before

        2       they got out to the supposed relocation lands.  I

        3       just read something from the University campus

        4       about Kennekuk, the Kickapoo tribe who was the

        5       last to leave, his tribe was the last to leave and

        6       how he managed to stay in the Danville area for a

        7       great length of time after most of the others had

        8       been relocated.  But this is the kind of history

        9       that needs to be taught here.  And we don't need

       10       this mocking mascot.

       11                 Thanks for your attention and like I

       12       said, get rid of it immediately.  But if you don't

       13       have the gumption to do that, at least do

       14       something about the lack of information, the lack

       15       of real analysis, historically accurate analysis

       16       of the native situation in the past and presently. 

       17       Thank you.

       18                 MS. SUSAN WEAVER:  My name is Susan

       19       Weaver.  I am from Canton, Illinois.  My family

       20       and I have been on a long journey since first

       21       meeting Michael, Mr. Haney, approximately ten to

       22       fifteen years ago when he and his supporters came

       23       to Dixon Mounds State Museum at Lewiston,

       24       Illinois, to protest for the reburial of the

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 55

 

        1       people there.

        2                 Mr. Haney struck me as honest person

        3       with integrity.  My son was so impressed with him

        4       and his ideals that he came and picketed with Mr.

        5       Haney and his supporters.  This was a very

        6       unpopular thing for Fulton County residents to do,

        7       but I was proud of my son's decision.  Mr. Haney

        8       also told us of another agenda he had which

        9       shocked me.  He was against Native American

       10       Indians being used as sports mascots.

       11                 Now, my family and I are Lewiston High

       12       School alumni and our school mascot is the

       13       Lewiston Indians.  We are taught to be proud of my

       14       mascot.  Mr. Haney just had to be wrong with this

       15       idea.

       16                 Well, Mike, we have since been involved

       17       with the Native American Fellowship in Peoria,

       18       Illinois, and have been enlightened as to the

       19       symbolism of the regalia and synchronous of the

       20       dance circle.  Would not one of us be highly upset

       21       and outraged at a young person dressed in Roman

       22       Catholic cleric garb or Hasidic rabbi clothing,

       23       hat and hairlocks or a white person in black face

       24       dancing and prancing around the field or gym

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 56

 

        1       floor.  Would any of us like to see these examples

        2       hung in effigy, would we want our children seeing

        3       these examples and thinking it was okay.  I think

        4       we would not.  My mother and my faith taught me if

        5       it hurt someone or made them feel bad about

        6       themselves, then we should not do that activity.

        7                 When you were at Dixon Mounds, you told

        8       us we should do the right thing then.  And I think

        9       we should all do the right thing now by asking the

       10       president of the University of Illinois, the

       11       Board, the faculty and students to listen to the

       12       feelings of the Native American Indians.  I also

       13       ask our holy Lord and Creator to touch the hearts

       14       of all the people who are listening to these

       15       entreaties that they may do the right thing also. 

       16       Thank you.

       17                 MR. FRANK KRASNOWSKI:  My name is Frank

       18       Krasnowski.  I am an alum, I graduated in 1954. I

       19       am a Chief supporter and my comments will be to

       20       the faculty who are anti-Chief.  I just hope that

       21       these individuals who are teaching our young

       22       students are not intimidating them by telling them

       23       their grades will be lowered if they wear Chief

       24       logo on or if they do show pro-Chief sentiments. 

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 57

 

        1       I hope this will be handled democratically and

        2       there will be no intimidating of individuals

        3       because of where they are positioned on the Chief

        4       issue.

        5                 At no time should academics be

        6       threatened by one side or the other.  So I hope

        7       that this issue will not blossom.  In fact, the

        8       opposition mentioned the North Central, well, if

        9       the North Central is to look into anything, they

       10       should look into intimidation on the part of the

       11       anti-Chief people.  Thank you.  I appreciate the

       12       opportunity to speak.

       13                 MS. GWEN CARR:  My name is Gwen Carr.  I

       14       am from the Huron Clan of the Cayuga Nation of New

       15       York.  I am the former political director for

       16       American Indians at the Democratic National

       17       Committee in Washington.  I am currently the

       18       political director for American Indians for Gore

       19       2000.  And I am the first American Indian to be

       20       the head of a Democratic party in Arizona.

       21                 I was born in Cook County Hospital in

       22       Chicago, was raised here, educated here and other

       23       places, worked for an American Indian organization

       24       here in Chicago before I went to Washington.  I

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 58

 

        1       worked a lot on the Chief Illiniwek issue and I

        2       feel very strongly about it.

        3                 I believe that to make human beings

        4       mascots, whether they are American Indians,

        5       whether they are black or they are Hispanic,

        6       whether they are Asian, whether they are women,

        7       whether they are children is wrong, fundamentally

        8       spiritually misguided.

        9                 I also realize that the University of

       10       Illinois makes a lot of money off of Chief

       11       Illiniwek.  And from my past experiences, that is

       12       a driving force in the move to keep this symbol as

       13       a symbol for the sports team for the University. 

       14       I also understand that the University of Illinois

       15       feels very strongly about change and how important

       16       it is to keep what they have.

       17                 Unfortunately, what they have is

       18       something that is very painful to American Indian

       19       people.  What they have is something that has been

       20       giving them very bad publicity in all the other

       21       top ten universities that they play with in

       22       sports.  I understand that the University of

       23       Illinois has been reprimanded by other

       24       universities.  Has been boycotted and will

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 59

 

        1       probably be continued to be boycotted.

        2                 This is not good for the students or the

        3       programs of the University of Illinois.  The

        4       University of Illinois and the students who come

        5       here need to come to a place that is racism free. 

        6       It can learn about life and learn their academics

        7       and learn what is good and true and real.  And the

        8       University of Illinois should be an institution

        9       that can teach them those things.

       10                 By retaining Chief Illiniwek the message

       11       that you send is that you are indifferent to the

       12       hearts and minds of not only American Indian

       13       people, but all of the young people who have come

       14       out today to say no, this is not something they

       15       want in their life.  What you are saying by

       16       retaining the Chief is that you don't care.

       17                 And when you don't care, you will not

       18       attract the kind of quality of student that you

       19       need, that will maintain the academic excellence

       20       of the University of Illinois.  And when you don't

       21       maintain the excellence of the University of

       22       Illinois, your endowment shrinks, your student

       23       enrollments shrink and you will start to feel the

       24       financial pinch.  That is what is in store for the

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 60

 

        1       University of Illinois if it resists the change

        2       that has been brought upon them.

        3                 So I urge you to look at the economics

        4       of this issue.  I urge you to look at the ethics

        5       of this issue.  And I urge you to look in your

        6       heart and think how would you feel if someone

        7       disrespected your family, your religious beliefs,

        8       your history and your culture.  Thank you very

        9       much.

       10                 MR. ANUJ PARIKH:  My name is Anuj

       11       Parikh.   Now, since this is going to be heard by

       12       the Board of Trustees, I am deathly afraid, I

       13       don't know how many students like to talk on

       14       camera, they feel scared, they feel worried and

       15       anxious.  There are so many feelings and my heart

       16       is beating faster than people could think

       17       possible.  I would love to be down there right now

       18       listening to speakers.

       19                 Now I have been listening to speakers

       20       pretty much throughout the afternoon and in the

       21       early morning.  I have heard both sides, pro-Chief

       22       and the anti side and I believe that, it's split

       23       down the middle.  I think there are a lot of

       24       students who think the Chief is a symbol of pride

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 61

 

        1       and a lot of people who believe on the anti side

        2       that it is discriminatory and racist sign.  That

        3       there is so much right with this University but it

        4       symbolizes a past where white settlers destroyed a

        5       culture that was rich in heritage.  And I

        6       personally believe that there is no middle ground. 

        7       And I also believe there is no correct solution.

        8                 I believe that if you pick one side or

        9       the other, you cannot appease both sides.  You

       10       cannot appease the side of the pro-Chief because

       11       they will want to keep that symbol.  But you

       12       always have the anti side coming up saying it is a

       13       racist symbol, it is a symbol of hate,

       14       discrimination and then you cannot appease the

       15       anti side because the pro side will say this is

       16       our symbol.  This symbolizes everything this

       17       University means has done and is said.

       18                 Now, the symbol of pride, now if that

       19       symbol is gone, I would still be proud to graduate

       20       from this University.  I would be proud to have an

       21       education with the University of Illinois and a

       22       diploma.  I would love to go to the law school at

       23       this University in four years when I graduate. 

       24       But this symbol to me is not a symbol of pride. 

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 62

 

        1       It is a symbol basic and pure.

        2                 Now, there are symbols like Washington

        3       Bullets many years ago decided that the symbol of

        4       a bullet was not proper for your organization,

        5       they changed it to the Washington Wizards.  I

        6       think the University must follow this same action. 

        7       I think that the University should change the name

        8       of the mascot.

        9                 It should get rid of the dance, because

       10       I don't think that it enriches the heritage of

       11       Native Americans.  I think it almost, it surely

       12       mocks it, if not, it's very much a racist, because

       13       it doesn't teach us about the Native American

       14       culture.  It has a white gentleman in an Indian

       15       outfit dancing around, prancing in front of

       16       crowds, trying to get them energized.  I don't

       17       think that's a way to teach students at this

       18       University about Native Americans and about the

       19       culture.

       20                 I think if we want to teach them about

       21       the culture of the Native Americans, we must take

       22       classes with them, we must take classes, like we

       23       are supposed to take classes in western

       24       civilization and minority courses provided by the

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 63

 

        1       University of Illinois.  I think that if we are to

        2       keep on this track, that we just segregate the

        3       school further.

        4                 Eight years ago there was a group of

        5       Latin American students who took over the Henry

        6       Administration Building protesting problems at

        7       LaCosta, about their hierarchy, and about how they

        8       had a director and a vice director who was not

        9       helping forward their goals.  Now that ended

       10       extremely unpleasantly when police ordered by the

       11       University, ordered by the Board of Trustees,

       12       stormed the building with tear gas and illegal

       13       stun guns and tasers.  I looked this up and I have

       14       looked at the law and the law specifically states,

       15       the use of tasers and stun guns is illegal,

       16       especially by the police.  And I believe that

       17       actions such as this will continue and I think

       18       that if we want to prevent this type of problems

       19       occurring at this University, problems like this,

       20       we should stop.  Thank you.

       21                 MS. SHERRY NAANES:  My name is Sherry

       22       Naanes.  I have lived in Champaign-Urbana for 39

       23       years.  And have worked at the U of I for nine

       24       years.  I have experienced the negative impact of

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 64

 

        1       Chief Illiniwek firsthand.  I work in building

        2       services and as a steward, I have represented an

        3       employee accused of intimidation.  The employee

        4       was charged with harassing fellow employees about

        5       wearing their Chief Illiniwek shirts, jackets and

        6       et cetera.  After meeting with management, it came

        7       out that the Chief supporters had been verbally

        8       goading the accused employee.  The employee is

        9       native and is against the Chief.

       10                 And I have also had personal experiences

       11       with harassment by fellow workers for my stance

       12       against the Chief.  And have learned my job is

       13       easier to deal with if I just keep quiet.

       14                 I am a janitor for the resident halls

       15       and work among many students who support the

       16       Chief.  I have never spoke a word to any student

       17       about the Chief, but I used to play native music

       18       while I worked.  But it only brought me trouble.

       19                 This past year, since September of '99,

       20       I have ceased to play my native music and it has

       21       been one of the most peaceful years I have had

       22       since 1990.  No more constant vandalism on my run. 

       23       I find it interesting that they honor and embrace

       24       native people, but I can no longer enjoy my music

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 65

 

        1       for I know of its retaliation towards me.

        2                 Another point I would like to bring up

        3       is I have been to a lot of the protests at

        4       Memorial Stadium and I will tell you what I saw

        5       the first time I went.  I saw drunken Illini fans

        6       yelling go back where you came from, get a life,

        7       get a job.  I think the thing that really got me

        8       was the people who were most abusive were elderly

        9       people wearing chief apparel from head to toe,

       10       yelling profanity, spitting at us, shoving and

       11       pushing young women and they threw a glass bottle

       12       at me.

       13                 The police had to step in several times

       14       and remove these people.  And they call this honor

       15       and respect towards native people.  Actually, a

       16       lot of the younger fans were wearing the new U of

       17       I logo apparel.  And we thank them for not wearing

       18       the Chief.  The University always says their

       19       mascot is honorable, not like the caricature chief

       20       Wahoo of the Cleveland Indians.  I went to a

       21       protest at the Cleveland opener game last year. 

       22       Cleveland is a big city and after protesting at

       23       the U of I, I admit I was a little concerned it

       24       might get out of hand.  But the fans at Cleveland

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 66

 

        1       were peaceful, no yelling or profanity.

        2                 And this last October at the homecoming

        3       game, we invited some Cleveland people to march

        4       with us, I will never forget later that afternoon

        5       sitting around talking about the day's events and

        6       hearing the people from Cleveland commenting on

        7       how abusive the fans were here at the U of I. 

        8       They were shocked by this.

        9                 I thank you for hearing us today and

       10       pray you are really listening this time.  Thank

       11       you.

       12                 MR. BRYAN THALHAMMER:  My name is Bryan

       13       Thalhammer.  I am a graduate student at the

       14       University of Illinois.  I don't have a very

       15       complex message, but I want to speak from the

       16       heart that I know that a lot of people are

       17       concerned about this and in my present state, some

       18       people would say I don't have any reason to be

       19       concerned about this because I am the dominant

       20       race or whatever you want to call it.  I would

       21       like to be able to live in peace and recognition

       22       with others.

       23                 Therefore, I would very much encourage

       24       the University to seek elsewhere, to find some

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 67

 

        1       other kind of symbol.  A few weeks ago there was

        2       game where the Orange Crush was apparently

        3       celebrating or showing their support of the

        4       Illini.  And I thought that was kind of

        5       interesting because they were just as enthusiastic

        6       and so on as any other group and images like this

        7       are going to emerge, very strong images.

        8                 We talk about evolution, we talk about

        9       the success and failure of different groups.  What

       10       is going to happen when this goes away, when the

       11       mascot goes away, there is going to be some

       12       variation and selection and some really wonderful

       13       symbols are going to come to be suggested and they

       14       are going to pick one and it's going to be great.

       15                 So let the old Boy Scout project get a

       16       rest.  Let's put this away and let's all be adult

       17       human beings and look at who else stands to hurt

       18       from this symbol.  The lady before me said she was

       19       very, very hurt by the way people treated her when

       20       she was protesting, get a life, go back to where

       21       you came from.  We don't want to do that.  This is

       22       the 21st century.

       23                 MR. MATTHEW PYLES:  My name is Matthew

       24       Pyles and I come to you today with both a positive

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 68

 

        1       and negative image that I have of this University.

        2                 Just to start off, I am currently a

        3       junior in civil engineering and as I am currently

        4       top of that class, and I am also an elected

        5       Senator for the next school term so I believe that

        6       I do have a very good say in this debate being

        7       that I am elected.

        8                 Getting onto it, I came from a town in

        9       southern Illinois that is about 99 percent white,

       10       I wanted to get out of there because I wanted to

       11       get some diversity, I not only came to this

       12       University because we are number one in civil

       13       engineering but also I wanted to experience

       14       diversity.

       15                 When I came up here freshman year I was

       16       trying to make friends, trying to expand my

       17       knowledge of other cultures, I found that it was

       18       very tough.  It was, it is a very segregated part

       19       of this campus.  And that is the negative aspect

       20       that I have about this whole thing, that you come

       21       here and the University advertises that it's a

       22       diverse place, you can meet new people.  I felt it

       23       very hard to do this.

       24                 But what I did find is that when I

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 69

 

        1       would, the first football game I went to I sat in

        2       the student cheering section and I met this guy

        3       who was an African American named James and we

        4       were both in favor for the Chief, we were both in

        5       favor, we love the Illini and since then, we have

        6       just been best friends ever since then.  And I am

        7       just saying this because the anti-Chief people say

        8       that this actually makes people racist and it

        9       draws people away from being racist.  Where in my

       10       case, it has actually drawn me closer to other

       11       cultures.  Thank you.

       12                 MR. RONALD BLACK:  My name is Ronald

       13       Black.   I am a graduate of the University, class

       14       of 1950.  I have two sons who have also graduated

       15       from the University and are loyal Illini.  We are

       16       all for the Chief, we all enjoy the Chief, we all

       17       appreciate the Chief.  We feel that the Chief is

       18       an unifying factor amongst the tribe of Illini,

       19       which I would define as everyone who has graduated

       20       from the University of Illinois.  And that

       21       includes people of all races and ethnic groups,

       22       Asians, Africans, Caucasians and people of all

       23       religious persuasions, as well.

       24                 And in that regard, I see the Chief as

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 70

 

        1       an appropriate symbol of this tribe, if you will,

        2       and what could be more appropriate than to name

        3       him Chief Illiniwek from the early tribe of

        4       Indians who inhabited this country.  This

        5       particular state.  I understand that they were

        6       annihilated by other tribes who apparently are the

        7       ones who are complaining now about the Chief's

        8       presence.  They were at Starved Rock, Illinois,

        9       they were completely eradicated.  So I find it a

       10       little interesting that surviving American Indians

       11       resent the tribe that they completely eradicated.

       12                 The tribe does have this symbol and I

       13       want to emphasize the word symbol.  It is a symbol

       14       and it is honored.

       15                 Now the opponents say that it is not a

       16       symbol, they insist on calling it a mascot and

       17       they insist that it is demeaning, to which I can

       18       only reply that if they insist upon being offended

       19       and making a career out of being an injured party,

       20       then I don't know what more that I can do for them

       21       and I don't know what the trustees can do for them

       22       if they are going to serve the loyal alumni of

       23       this University, but to ignore any further

       24       protestations by them.  Thank you.

 

 

 

                                                           PAGE 71

 

        1                 MR. ARVIN GEE:  My name is Arvin Gee, I

        2       am a fifth year graduate student here doing an

        3       M.D./Ph.D.  I didn't even know that there was this

        4       opportunity so I thank you for that so I don't

        5       really have a prepared statement other than to

        6       think that I think the Chief definitely needs to

        7       go.

        8                 When I first came here to school, I

        9       didn't know that Chief Illiniwek existed, nor did

       10       I really know what the Illini were when I first

       11       came to school here five years ago.  I went to the

       12       first basketball game and I was completely

       13       mortified when I saw the student who was playing

    &n